Conversation With A Mormon On Gay Rights
Posted By Eric Ethington (Author) on January 29, 2011
Salt Lake City, UT – Got to tell you this story folks. Yesterday I had the opportunity to speak to a group of Social Worker students at the University of Utah about what it means to be LGBT and the experiences we face growing up in Utah. Afterwards, an active Mormon man approached me.
I made a point while speaking to mention my true feelings about the Mormon (LDS) Church. I won’t deny or try to hide it, many would classify me as anti-Mormon. I’m opposed to virtually every policy they enforce on their unsuspecting neighbors. I have seen too many deaths, too many families destroyed and lives broken directly because of them.
But perhaps my feelings towards the Mormon organization, which are highlighted rather frequently here at PRIDEinUtah, have not made it clear the differences I draw between the religion as a whole and the individuals within the Church.
After the question and answer in front of the class, a young man named Steve approached me with some private questions. He identified himself as a straight active-Mormon who was struggling with how to combine his religion and his growing feelings of support for the LGBT community. The question he asked me brought me up short, after hearing my views on the Mormon church he asked, “How can you expect me to support you, if you don’t support me?”
Very poignant question, and he raised an excellent point. How can we expect members of the different faiths to support us if we refuse to support them in their religion. I took Steve to the side and did my best to more fully explain my position.
“Am I a fan or in any way supportive of the Mormon religion? No.” I said, ” but that has nothing to do with me supporting your right to believe the way you do. Your personal relationship with your God is sacred even to me, because it is in your heart and it is your undeniable right. There is a large difference between opposing the policies and doctrine of a religion, and being opposed to the people within that religion.”
There is a very distinct and clear line between members of an organization or religion and the organization itself was the point I was trying to get across. While I may (and do) protest publicly the Mormon church, march around their temple and call them on their bullshit, that is not an attack on any individual.
I know far too many “true Mormons” who have good hearts to say that I want to turn all Mormons away from their religion. Believing in a god can be a comfort to millions just as not believing in a god is a great comfort to myself.
Steve then asked me how he could reconcile his religion with LGBT issues. I confessed that I didn’t have a solid answer for him, as the Mormon organization has drawn very distinct battle lines and have even crossed into illegal activities during campaigns such as Proposition 8 (they were later fined for their illegal use of monies in the campaign).
“The best advice I can give you Steve, is just to remember the one word that your Christ taught above all else: Love. Love your fellow human beings without qualm or hesitation. For if you don’t and you let the words and feelings of hate spread through you, the one person you are guaranteed to damage is going to be yourself.”
“Steve, no matter what any religion may tell you. We are born this way. I don’t care that science hasn’t proven it (they also haven’t proven that people are born heterosexual either) because that really doesn’t matter. All you have to do is ask one of us and we’ll tell you. Who would know better than ourselves what is truly in our own hearts? And what would your Jesus say if you were to stop loving or accepting someone just because they are different from yourself?”
I gave Steve the URL for PRIDEinUtah as well as my phone number and email, I sincerely hope that he reads this and contacts me.
"Eric, trying to have this (civil rights) conversation with you is ultimately like trying to teach a pig to dance, it just annoys the pig. So Eric, sorry to annoy you."
-Paul Mero, The Sutherland Institute.
Eric,
I try to make my point clear on this issue a lot. I think that everyone can believe whatever they want. I support that. I work with and have friends that are Mormon, and I try not to bash their beloved church. This is the beauty of living in a country where We can choose to believe whatever we want.
Point and case, I have no problem with polygamy, but I do draw the line at bringing the children into the marriages. I believe that adults can choose whatever they want to believe. I do not believe in organized religion. But people that do, I feel that is their choice. I do not support the KKK, but they do have a right to believe however they want. Even westboro baptist church, no matter how stupid, and funny, I think their beliefs are, and I may taunt them every pride I go to! They can believe whatever they want.
I am glad that you had that discussion, Thank you for bringing that issue up here.
Great post. I’ve had people ‘unfriend’ me on facebook, and real life, because they see my pro gay views as anti-mormon.
I agree with you. I don’t like much of what is done in the organization. I also love my family and friends that are Mormons AND great humans with loving hearts. I too was a believing Mormon and I always did my best to Love everyone.
I can really feel for Steve as I don’t know how I’d reconcile this if I were still in the church. I always went back to what you said Eric, Jesus taught us to Love and that is what matters.
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No one is born Mormon, but gay people are born that way.
Eric, thanks for the work you do! Especially this post. I am a straight, “soccer mom”, former Republican, and former Mormon. I attended the “This Is Our Voice” rally last Monday with some friends–all straight former Mormons, without a “dog in the fight”. We were somewhat dismayed that Fox13 characterized the supporters as LGBT. Not that I mind, but I think it is important for legislators and the community to understand this isn’t just a LGBT issue, it’s a human issue. Social issues, especially LGBT equality, brought me to part with my loved and valued Mormon upbringing. It was a matter of integrity and I saw no other way to be true to my values. At the time I didn’t know that I knew gay people, but since then it has been confirmed over and over, as I build relationships with those in the LGBT community, that I made the right choice for me. If Steve is reading this, know that there are huge communities of “nontraditional” Mormons ready to support you as you negotiate how to best integrate your God and your Heart. I had to leave the church, but that isn’t the right choice for everyone. Change is happening one heart at a time. We are making history and I’m so happy to be part of it!
I wish at times I could say I have been so tolerant of those in the Mormon church. I guess part of my intolerance come from having been born into the church and the abuse suffered because of the teachings of the church, not to mention how I have been treated by family members who are still active in the church. The family members who have left the church are so much more accepting.
This is like a Nazi coming up to a Jew and telling him/her that he won’t support the rights of Jews if the Jews don’t support the rights of Nazis — including their right to kill Jews.
I don’t know what’s worse: being maligned because I’m “gay” or being maligned because I’m an atheist.
Thanks for being your astute, outspoken self.
I’ve always said you can love the Mormon but hate the Mormonism. I have lots of Mormon friends who individually would not hurt a fly but collectively, when given marching orders by a despotic hierarchy who believe they alone know the will and mind of God, will without hestitation try to trash the Civil Rights of other American citizens.
Until people understand that Mormonism is NOT just a religion but also a poltical entity “The Kingsom of God on Earth” they will not grasp that progressives do not contend with Mormon’s rights to believe as they choose ONLY their right to force others to live within the confinds of their notion of the Kingdom of God. My loyalty is to the Constitution first and my fellow Americans. Without the Constitution being absolute we will descend in to “Holy Wars” without end.
@Robyn- we have almost the same story! One of the things I learned growing up LDS was to have integrity and so I had to part ways with them.
@Carissa-Thanks for adding your insight. In my experience and observation, there are many more like us, and our numbers are growing every day.
People are People no matter what their religion or politics.
no one should generalize or prejudge anyone based on affiliation.
It is normal and common for persons to misunderstand, misinterpret, and or make up their own meanings to a teaching of truth. Pick out just a word or two and flip it to support their own ideas as fact.
It shouldn’t surprises any thoughtful person to know that not every Mormon voted for prop 8, nor that not every LBGT person voted against.
Mormons are taught that this life is a test of character.
And to that end, all of us a given certain dilemmas from whence to choose.
And it should also be noted that they are taught that it is expected that only the few will make the correct choices when face with ultimate moral choices. We have been divided into groups and sects since the beginning of human consciousness. And then given opportunities to treat the “others” with respect, or hate. To Love our neighbors, or seek their destruction.
Steve, may represent those few from the perceived many of the Mormons, who dig deep into their conscience and choose the higher laws of Love, Compassion, Charity, and who abstain from judging others who may appear not to adhere to the same set of rules he has agreed to follow. (seems he paid attention in sunday school)
By doing so, he proves himself a genuine saint. While the others who speak with hate, judgement, and scorn, prove themselves proclaimers of words while holding a distance of heart.
I know there a many saints in the LGB communities too, who want to express the love and compassion they seek from the world around them. and though you operate as an activist, which is like being a soldier in a war, you may want to seek their council as well. They may tell you that befriending the Mormons who understand the humanity of your cause, will work better and draw more to your support(especially in the long run) than demonizing and or insulting them.
Remember that our first parents were Adan and Even not Adam and Steve.
Excellent contribution. Your point?